http://barneteye.blogspot.com/2010/05/barnet-greens-more-like-barnets-biggest.html
Mr Lyven left a series of comments, which weren't particularly complimentary about me. Whilst much of this was personal and abusive, I guess most people would probably take the view that a blogger such as myself probably deserves it (you'd probably be right as well). When a Candidate makes a comment with what could be construed as deeply racist tones, I believe that is a more serious matter and one which cannot be ignored. I believe it is one which deserves public scrutiny. In his final comment, Mr Lyven said the following :-
Oh, I hear there's a seat going in Zimbabwe North, why not try for it Rog? Don't worry about small parties standing there against you; they can be dealt with...I have a life, Au Revoir!I could not believe that a member of the Green party would say such a thing. Zimbabwe is one of the worlds poorest and most deprived countries. How insulting for the people there to be belittled in such a patronising way. It is also ill informed because there is an opposition party to Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe. It's called the Movement for Democratic Change (MDC). Does Mr Lyven not realise how insulting it is to them to make such comments. Does he really think he can compare me saying that it was disgraceful that the Greens didn't stand in Burnt Oak, with the repression and violence meted out by Mugabe thugs on the MDC? In case it has escaped Mr Lyvens attention, the Lib Dems in Barnet are a small party. They have three seats out of 63 on Barnet Council.
Why choose Zimbabwe as a country to ridicule? There are plenty of repressive regimes in the world of all colours. There are plenty of corrupt politicians of all colours. There are many regimes who have killed far more opponents and in a far more systematic manner than Mugabe. So why does Mr Lyven choose Zimbabwe rather than Iran, China, Cuba, Burma or any of a host of middle eastern states to demonstrate his argument? Why does Zimbabwe, out of all of these states come to mind for Mr Lyven?
I have my own opinion about Mr Lyven and this comment. I'll let you draw your own conclusions.
He's being neither. Just being sarcastic (ok it's the lowest form of with according to Wilde, or whoever) but he's certainly NOT being racist. I'm African and would readily mention Zimbabwe as a country that practises dodgy economics and democracy. He hasn't ridiculed Zimbabweans. He's just said that in Zimbabwe, we all know that Mugabe doesn't tolerate opposition or small political movements. Neither does the MDC incidentally, who have now happily merged with ZANU-PF as there's cash involved. I used to call the previous govt ZANU-Labour - well, you get the point. Greens are many things, racist certainly isn't one of them.
ReplyDeleteAhh!!but Counsel, is it wit according to Oscar Wilde or the highest form of intelligence. Nevertheless, one expects better of one ASPIRING to be a politician and maybe a legislator. So I leave 2 quotes from Cicero a great influence on my own education as was a younger Sedley LJ, "The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct." and "They are eloquent who can speak low things acutely, and of great things with dignity, and of moderate things with temper."
ReplyDeleteHowever. I do not disagree with you
Dear Suburban Voter,
ReplyDeleteJust for the sake of clarity, I don't think the Green party are racist. I am taking issue with a particular statement by a particular candidate.
As I said, I have my views on it. You have yours
Rog, I personally would not put a racist interpretation on Donald Lyven's comments, I agree that his comments do not put him or his party in a good light.
ReplyDeleteI have had similarly unpleasant exchanges with other members of the local Green party in the past (one of whom, Mike Gee, actually stood for RAB in the last election), so the tone does not surprise me.
It is a great shame. Green issues are of critical importance, and this type of behaviour does nothing to help put it on the agenda.
Jaybird,
ReplyDeleteI don't really take any great joy in this series of posts as I agree much of the Green agenda. Having said that, I don't see any reason why the Green Party shouldn't have the scrutiny other parties have. It seems to me that many people think the Greens are a charity or a spiritual welfare organisation, rather than a political party. I most certainly don't think it gives Donald Lyven a right to say what he likes, behave as he likes and expect no criticism whatsoever.
I can rule out that Mr Don Lyven will sadly not be standing in Finchley & Golders Green next election after his antics at the count. If you support the green party in the area I am sure the local party would love to hear from you with your ideas as to who might be a better candidate next time. Ben
ReplyDelete